https://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-3.0/gliding/flightinfo.html?dsId=6514812

Flight details
Points for the flight 279.92
scoring distance 783.79 km
Speed 313.51 km/h
Duration 02:30:00
Scoring class double
Scoring start 23:56:30
Scoring end 02:56:45
Index: 116.0
Club Perlan Project
Date of claim 10.06.2018 03:26:24

Best. Tom #711.

On Tuesday, June 12, 2018 at 11:44:01 AM UTC-4, Tom Kelley #711 wrote:
> https://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-3.0/gliding/flightinfo.html?dsId=6514812
>
> Flight details
> Points for the flight 279.92
> scoring distance 783.79 km
> Speed 313.51 km/h
> Duration 02:30:00
> Scoring class double
> Scoring start 23:56:30
> Scoring end 02:56:45
> Index: 116.0
> Club Perlan Project
> Date of claim 10.06.2018 03:26:24
>
> Best. Tom #711.

WOW - that is amazing! Congratulations to the team for this great flight.
For us mere mortals, what is that Sage2 clearance and the LOA? Just curious.
Uli
'AS'

> For us mere mortals, what is that Sage2 clearance and the LOA?

A Sage2 clerance is filed with Joshua Approach and allows access into R2508. It's not something trivial to get as the paperwork needs to be submitted well in advance of your flying in the airspace.

On Tuesday, June 12, 2018 at 10:44:01 AM UTC-5, Tom Kelley #711 wrote:
> https://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-3.0/gliding/flightinfo.html?dsId=6514812
>
> Flight details
> Points for the flight 279.92
> scoring distance 783.79 km
> Speed 313.51 km/h
> Duration 02:30:00
> Scoring class double
> Scoring start 23:56:30
> Scoring end 02:56:45
> Index: 116.0
> Club Perlan Project
> Date of claim 10.06.2018 03:26:24
>
> Best. Tom #711.

So how did they get around the plane's VNE of 280 km/h? Can't be a tailwind because the trace shows speeds of up to 380 km/h going both Northbound and Southbound.

At 17:57 12 June 2018, wrote:
>On Tuesday, June 12, 2018 at 10:44:01 AM UTC-5, Tom Kelley
#711 wrote:
>>
>https://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-3.0/gliding/flightinfo.html?
dsId=6514812
>>
>> Flight details
>> Points for the flight 279.92
>> scoring distance 783.79 km
>> Speed 313.51 km/h
>> Duration 02:30:00
>> Scoring class double
>> Scoring start 23:56:30
>> Scoring end 02:56:45
>> Index: 116.0
>> Club Perlan Project
>> Date of claim 10.06.2018 03:26:24
>>
>> Best. Tom #711.
>
>So how did they get around the plane's VNE of 280 km/h? Can't
be a
>tailwind because the trace shows speeds of up to 380 km/h going
both
>Northbound and Southbound.
>

True airspeed goes up with altitude at a rate of ~2% per 1000'.
So, in wave at 20,000' the true airspeed is ~40% higher than
the indicated airspeed... 280 km/h indicated = ~ 392 km/h in
true airspeed at 20k ft.....

RO

Yes, but isn't Vne based on true airspeed, e.g., 151 KTAS at any
altitude?Â* My calculation shows 169 KTAS at altitude which is over Vne,
though not by too much.Â* I'm not quite that bold any more.

Congratulations on a terrific flight!

On 6/12/2018 12:24 PM, Michael Opitz wrote:
> At 17:57 12 June 2018, wrote:
>> On Tuesday, June 12, 2018 at 10:44:01 AM UTC-5, Tom Kelley
> #711 wrote:
>> https://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-3.0/gliding/flightinfo.html?
> dsId=6514812
>>> Flight details
>>> Points for the flight 279.92
>>> scoring distance 783.79 km
>>> Speed 313.51 km/h
>>> Duration 02:30:00
>>> Scoring class double
>>> Scoring start 23:56:30
>>> Scoring end 02:56:45
>>> Index: 116.0
>>> Club Perlan Project
>>> Date of claim 10.06.2018 03:26:24
>>>
>>> Best. Tom #711.
>> So how did they get around the plane's VNE of 280 km/h? Can't
> be a
>> tailwind because the trace shows speeds of up to 380 km/h going
> both
>> Northbound and Southbound.
>>
> True airspeed goes up with altitude at a rate of ~2% per 1000'.
> So, in wave at 20,000' the true airspeed is ~40% higher than
> the indicated airspeed... 280 km/h indicated = ~ 392 km/h in
> true airspeed at 20k ft.....
>
> RO
>

--
Dan, 5J

On Tuesday, June 12, 2018 at 2:30:07 PM UTC-4, Michael Opitz wrote:
> At 17:57 12 June 2018, resigler wrote:
> >On Tuesday, June 12, 2018 at 10:44:01 AM UTC-5, Tom Kelley
> #711 wrote:
> >>
> >https://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-3.0/gliding/flightinfo.html?
> dsId=6514812
> >>
> >> Flight details
> >> Points for the flight 279.92
> >> scoring distance 783.79 km
> >> Speed 313.51 km/h
> >> Duration 02:30:00
> >> Scoring class double
> >> Scoring start 23:56:30
> >> Scoring end 02:56:45
> >> Index: 116.0
> >> Club Perlan Project
> >> Date of claim 10.06.2018 03:26:24
> >>
> >> Best. Tom #711.
> >
> >So how did they get around the plane's VNE of 280 km/h? Can't
> be a
> >tailwind because the trace shows speeds of up to 380 km/h going
> both
> >Northbound and Southbound.
> >
>
> True airspeed goes up with altitude at a rate of ~2% per 1000'.
> So, in wave at 20,000' the true airspeed is ~40% higher than
> the indicated airspeed... 280 km/h indicated = ~ 392 km/h in
> true airspeed at 20k ft.....
>
> RO

But doesn't Vne (as indicated) go down with altitude? That's since for some speed limiting issues (such as flutter) it's the true airspeed that counts. Is it "true" to say that Vne as TAS is constant with altitude? Perhaps only approximately. This has been debated here before, e.g.:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.aviation.soaring/p_sj7hCKC5o

On Tuesday, June 12, 2018 at 10:57:06 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 12, 2018 at 10:44:01 AM UTC-5, Tom Kelley #711 wrote:
> > https://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-3.0/gliding/flightinfo.html?dsId=6514812
> >
> > Flight details
> > Points for the flight 279.92
> > scoring distance 783.79 km
> > Speed 313.51 km/h
> > Duration 02:30:00
> > Scoring class double
> > Scoring start 23:56:30
> > Scoring end 02:56:45
> > Index: 116.0
> > Club Perlan Project
> > Date of claim 10.06.2018 03:26:24
> >
> > Best. Tom #711.
>
> So how did they get around the plane's VNE of 280 km/h? Can't be a tailwind because the trace shows speeds of up to 380 km/h going both Northbound and Southbound.

What do you mean by "get around"? Just push the nose down further.

Vne is just a number on the placard which the manufacturer makes every effort to prove is safe in a wide rage of circumstances. There is nothing to say that a higher speed will break the plane. And you're not going to get a speeding ticket or something.

I've heard the owner of a glider manufacturer tell a pilot at the worlds that a particular glider model should be fine to take 20% past Vne.

You just need to be aware that if you go past Vne you're a test pilot.

People do exist with the experience and knowledge and judgement to be test pilots.

I'm not one of them.

On Tuesday, June 12, 2018 at 3:13:54 PM UTC-5, Bruce Hoult wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 12, 2018 at 10:57:06 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> > On Tuesday, June 12, 2018 at 10:44:01 AM UTC-5, Tom Kelley #711 wrote:
> > > https://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-3.0/gliding/flightinfo.html?dsId=6514812
> > >
> > > Flight details
> > > Points for the flight 279.92
> > > scoring distance 783.79 km
> > > Speed 313.51 km/h
> > > Duration 02:30:00
> > > Scoring class double
> > > Scoring start 23:56:30
> > > Scoring end 02:56:45
> > > Index: 116.0
> > > Club Perlan Project
> > > Date of claim 10.06.2018 03:26:24
> > >
> > > Best. Tom #711.
> >
> > So how did they get around the plane's VNE of 280 km/h? Can't be a tailwind because the trace shows speeds of up to 380 km/h going both Northbound and Southbound.
>
> What do you mean by "get around"? Just push the nose down further.
>
> Vne is just a number on the placard which the manufacturer makes every effort to prove is safe in a wide rage of circumstances. There is nothing to say that a higher speed will break the plane. And you're not going to get a speeding ticket or something.
>
> I've heard the owner of a glider manufacturer tell a pilot at the worlds that a particular glider model should be fine to take 20% past Vne.
>
> You just need to be aware that if you go past Vne you're a test pilot.
>
> People do exist with the experience and knowledge and judgement to be test pilots.
>
> I'm not one of them.

Test pilot indeed. Based on this OLC trace there are several times where the plane was 37% over published VNE. Wow.

I'm no test pilot either, haven't played one on TV, and never want to find out what being one is like...

And speaking of fast gliders, on the same day and a few miles to the southwest at Bird Springs Pass, a new dynamic soaring speed record of 545 MPH was set with a radio controlled glider!
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?3090816-New-World-Record-Spencer-Lisenby-Kinetic-Transonic-DP-545MPH

Go to the 3rd page of comments for a video.

They had 80 mph winds at ridgetop.

5Z

On Tuesday, June 12, 2018 at 3:51:35 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> And speaking of fast gliders, on the same day and a few miles to the southwest at Bird Springs Pass, a new dynamic soaring speed record of 545 MPH was set with a radio controlled glider!
> https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?3090816-New-World-Record-Spencer-Lisenby-Kinetic-Transonic-DP-545MPH
>
> Go to the 3rd page of comments for a video.
>
> They had 80 mph winds at ridgetop.
>
> 5Z

It's a very technically competent group of people. I'm sure the flight wasn't gone into without appropriate considerations of the flight limitations. I was a bit surprised they chose to tow into the wave rather than use the jet engine for launch.

At this point it's up to the Duckhawk V to better the record, although the pilot workload is pretty high and having a multi-seater is an advantage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windward_Performance_DuckHawk

Cheers,
Craig

At 17:57 12 June 2018, wrote:
>On Tuesday, June 12, 2018 at 10:44:01 AM UTC-5, Tom Kelley
#711 wrote:
>>
>https://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-3.0/gliding/flightinfo.html?
dsId=6514812
>>
>> Flight details
>> Points for the flight 279.92
>> scoring distance 783.79 km
>> Speed 313.51 km/h
>> Duration 02:30:00
>> Scoring class double
>> Scoring start 23:56:30
>> Scoring end 02:56:45
>> Index: 116.0
>> Club Perlan Project
>> Date of claim 10.06.2018 03:26:24
>>
>> Best. Tom #711.
>
>So how did they get around the plane's VNE of 280 km/h? Can't
be a
>tailwind because the trace shows speeds of up to 380 km/h going
both
>Northbound and Southbound.
>

True airspeed goes up with altitude at a rate of ~2% per 1000'.
So, in wave at 20,000' the true airspeed is ~40% higher than
the indicated airspeed... 280 km/h indicated = ~ 392 km/h in
true airspeed at 20k ft.....

RO